Friday, June 3 from 7 – 9pm : open to the public
Imago Dei Community (1302 SE Ankeny in Portland)
In today’s world, Osama bin Laden symbolizes a lot of things to a lot of people. In our nation alone, his life is celebrated, despaired, and feared by religious groups, political organizations, and individuals. With bin Laden’s recent death, we have been bombarded by a range of responses. From parties, to shrines, to political jockeying, it can be hard to find your own voice. This forum will be an opportunity to develop a Christian response to the death of bin Laden and the world he left behind. We will consider the Church’s public witness on the war of terror by reflections from New Wine leaders, Dr. Paul Louis Metzger and Dr. Brad Harper, and by hearing from several individuals in the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community which is promoting a project called Muslims for Peace.
Watch a video from CBN about the Muslims for Peace project.
Refer to this list of books, articles, films, organizations, etc. relevant to this discussion.
UPDATE: Click here to listen to an audio recording of this event.
Al Qaeda was considered a major problem by Arabic governments, too.
Will there be more information about this after it happens? I would love to attend but I will be in Seattle.
Hi Pattie,
We hope to record it. If we’re able to, the recording will be posted here.
Thanks for your interest!
Here is an article I wrote on this subject. It was published on Revelife.com but this is a link to the copy on my personal blog (I think I had a few additional sentences on my copy). Hope you enjoy it. I wrote this as the information was being leaked and I saw people reacting. I finished the post before President Obama finished his speech. As a result there are many issues and scriptures that are not addressed. This is far from exhaustive so read with grace. I hope it is helpful for inspiring thought.
http://thegreatbout.xanga.com/746838857/osama-bin-ladens-death-and-the-christian-reaction/
It’s refreshing to hear this rather disturbing subject will be addressed. I have to admit, I was somewhat ashamed of some of the responses I saw to OBL’s death; however, I also understand the struggle from within. This indeed will be meaningful as I anticipate many are still emotionally tied to the events he is responsible for, while at the same time, they are emotionally and spiritually tied to our Lord eternally. Awesome idea.
There was a very interesting article in the Portland Oregonian paper today (Wednesday) commenting about the fact that Osama was just a mis-guided idealist that thought that conversion by force would work, very much like the Catholic church did during the Crusades. They eventually learned that force does not work and started teaching instead. That is the place Islam needs to come to. It is a very interesting argument.
I awoke early this morning with one of those kinds of “Aha” moments that make me continue to pursue dichotomies, ironies, and even the absurd in hopes of enlightening insight. Finding that tonight’s (June 3, 2011) New Wine, New Wineskins event in Portland, Oregon would discuss issues related to Osama Bin Laden and Muslims for Peace prompts this post (http://wdmonnwnw.blogspot.com/2011/06/who-is-my-enemy.html) of an otherwise personal “discipleship-moment” resulting from the Christianity Today profile on Dr. Metzger, “Fraternizing with the Enemy.” Wish I could be in Portland tonight.
I posted these comments a few days after the news of Osama Bin Laden’s death in response to a friend’s post. In light of tonight’s event Dr. Metzger asked if I might be willing to share these thoughts.
I wanted to post some thoughts and questions i had after hearing several things about people’s response to the death of Osama Bin Laden.
I owe a debt to Dr. Roger Newell who continues on my journey with me, helping me think through some of this.
Several questions come to mind as i have been listening to many who feel we should rejoice in the death of Bin Laden because it was a demonstration of the justice of God…..
1. Where does the tension come from that many of us feel between being happy or rejoicing in the death of an obviously evil man and questioning whether we should be feeling happy about someone’s death? We too are evil people. So, should people be happy and rejoice when we die because God has exercised his justice by taking our lives?
2. Where do you stop with this line of reasoning? We may think it’s easy because Bin Laden is up there with Hitler, Nero, Amin, etc. But we know better. We are just as guilty and deserving of “justice”. (which we need to define) Maybe not in the quantity or the extent we abused our power as them, but biblically this is never a question of how much we sin in comparison with others.
3. What would God’s justice look like if there had been no sin or wrong? I assume that the Father, Son and Spirit were just before they created us, so is his justice any different now that sin or wrong has entered the picture?
4. Is the goal of justice punishment or “the wrong being made right?”
5. Is God’s justice a competing notion with his love as Father, Son, and Spirit or does his justice proceed out of his love?
6. Is punishment of the oppressor the only way, or the primary way, or just one of many ways God exercises his justice for the sake of the oppressed or could God be about making the wrong right by healing the oppressed and untwisting the sin and damage of the oppressor?
7. Is God’s filial link to us prior to his judicial link?
8. Does God’s judgment proceed out of the foundation of his fatherhood or vice versa?
9. Does God abdicate his fatherhood and assume the role of Judge when he exercises justice?
10. When God judges does he ever do it as a distant and non-related judge? Or does all of his judgment proceed out of his fatherhood of mankind? Can we glimpse the self giving Father behind the legal robes of the divine judge?
I agree that God values justice and that God loves justice, as you said. He cares infinitely more for the oppressed than any of our rhetoric will ever describe. I too care deeply for God’s justice. But…
11. Does God value justice more than the persons he judges?
12. Does God love justice more than the person he judges? Some might contend here that God loves himself supremely and he is just. But John 17:23 Jesus states that “and (you, Father) have loved them even as you have loved me.” God actually loves us as much as he loves himself. He actually does what he asks of us, namely, “loves his neighbor as himself”. God’s love has never been a solitary, narcissistic, self love.
13. Does God love the oppressed more than the oppressor?
14. In a bit more personal vein, do we love our children more than the desire to exercise justice in their lives? I think we desire to exercise justice in their lives because we love them.
You asked, “if God has no joy in the death of the wicked, why doesn’t he simply exonerate everyone and bring no final judgment? After all, he is God….”
Here’s Lewis’s take on a very similar question. “If God is prepared to let us off, just do so. Why punish an innocent instead?” If you think of police court punishment, than this is silly or nonsense. “On the other hand, if you think of a debt, there is plenty of point in a person who has some assets paying it on behalf of someone who has not. If paying the penalty is not taken in the sense of being punished, but in a more general sense of “footing the bill” then it is a matter of common experience that, when one person has got himself into a hole, the trouble of getting him out usually falls on a kind friend.”
My point here is: Jesus is prepared to “let us off the hook” by paying the debt of sin (not debt to God) by taking our place. This includes the oppressor. This is God’s justice seen most clearly.
I think Lewis would have us weigh competing forms of justice by the way he approaches this in “The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.” Almost immediately upon entering Narnia we meet someone that advocates an eye for an eye, a life for a life sense of justice. One that is primarily punitive. It is not Aslan. It is the white witch. Aslan’s understanding is deeper and different. Mr Beaver said it well when he quoted the prophetic poem, ” Wrong will be made right when Aslan comes in sight.” He didn’t say, Wrong will be punished when Aslan comes in sight.
Irenaeus in “Against Heresies” developed a notion of justice as restoration or his word for it was recapitulation. In this drama of divine justice, the eternal Son descends to space and time, and into our humanity, not to be an object of divine wrath so God lets us off the legal hook, but rather to reclaim the entire human journey from birth to death and beyond death, untwisting our disobedience by a healing obedience for the entire human journey, from Mary’s womb to the ascension. So, God “defeats” evil not by ruthlessly punishing guilty parties but by faithfully untwisting every step of false response with true submission to the Father’s will.
So, i would submit that before we start rejoicing in what we perceive as an act of the justice of God (the American military taking the life of Bin Laden in a firefight) we should think more carefully about what the justice of God is and how it plays out in this fallen world, which is a different discussion from how it might play out in the next. In other words, was Bin Laden’s death really an act of justice on the part of God? As we search and struggle with all this, let us do this with humility and compassion, knowing that we can trust that God is really and truly Good.
As you noted, God does not delight in the death of the wicked.
Thank you, John, for sharing your thoughts regarding some of the responses we hear to Osama Bin Laden’s death. While I am shocked when I hear someone say something like this is God’s justice or judgment, I have struggled with my own feelings of not really knowing how to feel. Thank you to New Wine for hosting this timely event, “Osama – A Christian Reponse,” and to the Muslim’s for Peace project for participating. For myself, the opportunity to engage together was both humbling and encouraging.